[Ron Giovino]: So I'm not assuming, I'll start the chat just to see. I believe, and you probably already know this about me, is that I believe that the job of somebody who's running a meeting is to make sure the meeting's going in the direction we want it to go and we work towards a goal. So in my first, The thing I'd like to do first is maybe set some goals, expectations, and guidelines that will follow through the whole process. So while we're waiting for Maury, maybe one of you two could just start, or I can start, doesn't matter. Just talk about what you think the subcommittee's role is in this whole process.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, that was kind of my question too, is what is exactly is the scope of this subcommittee? Are we talking all things city council or do we have a more narrow scope of what we want to do. I mean, you know, I watch almost every city council meeting and, you know, just amazed at some of the things that I see. And I have a whole lot of thoughts on city council, but I don't know if all of them are, you know, lumped into this particular, you know, grouping.
[Milva McDonald]: So what I think, we do have the motion for guidance and the motion lists some particular topics, but it also says they're not limited to that. So I think if we are pursuing some of the data and the information on ward representation or anything related to that to present to the committee in a month or two, if there's some other topic that we that comes up that we think is relevant to it, then we include it. Hi, Maury.
[Unidentified]: Hi, Maury.
[Milva McDonald]: Hi, Maury.
[Maury Carroll]: Sorry about being late. I just got tied up on a previous one. So of course, no problem.
[Ron Giovino]: No problem. We just started. I just want to, I think from my standpoint, the purpose of a subcommittee is to take a piece of an issue and work that issue. So it doesn't tear down the whole committee's work, trying to resolve some issues. So it's a, It's a subset of what we're trying to do. And I think that the goal has to be a very narrow one so that we're not doing the work of the whole committee. So in terms of, you know, my understanding is our task is to take that piece of talking about a hybrid committee at large and ward representation and develop what I'd like to see, what I would like to see is develop an actual section of the new charter, and how that would look and what the verbiage would look like. And that takes a lot of research, it takes a lot of, you know, understanding, it takes a lot of it's that piece alone takes three months. And I think our task is not to necessarily look at how the how the, I think that looking at the council and how it works is just way too large a scope for us to tackle. That's something that the committee, I would hope that the whole committee will look at other subcommittees that take bits and pieces of how communications work, whatever the issues are from the council that we're hearing. But I think as far as a subcommittee goes, I think we want to be very narrow in what we do to be able to provide something concrete that everybody on the committee can see that says, OK, when you're talking about a hybrid, what we recommend for the form of government of this council, this is how it's going to look when it finally comes out. And once we present it to the whole committee, they'll be able to tear it apart, edit it and do whatever. But I think our task is to give them that first, you know, actual document piece that we can start, you know, talking about. That's my opinion.
[Milva McDonald]: Thanks. I really like that idea, Ron. And because one of the things that we're going to be doing in the coming months is moving into actually sort of drafting, because we want to, you know, look at the pieces of the charter and When we actually start drafting language, it doesn't necessarily mean we're making that decision, but it actually can open the door to help us discuss, you know, the real meat that we need to discuss. So maybe what we can do that's in line with what you're suggesting is look at our charter and maybe the other sample charters we've, you know, the other three communities we've been using and see the specifically the composition of city council section, because that's what we're talking about. And we can sort of, So maybe we can look at those and then we can sort of, you know, start from there. The other thing I just wanted to say is I think, you know, there was definitely some committee members who also specifically wanted us to explore, you know, the ramifications of hybrid ward representation and versus increasing, simply increasing the size of that large council.
[Ron Giovino]: Right. 100%. And I also, to add on to that, I think that all the stuff that you're talking about, Eunice, of the things we know need to be changed, term limits, how communications work, all that stuff is going to be incorporated in our discussions as we move forward. I just don't want to for this subcommittee to turn into another subcommittee that's talking about things. Well, my goal is that in three months, we have that document that we present that, but I think there's hundreds of subcommittees that are on the horizon that we need to break out into so that it'll all come together.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, well, I don't know.
[Ron Giovino]: I don't know. I was reading the Massachusetts General Laws. It's unbelievable.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, you were the one that said last week this was going to take 10 years.
[Ron Giovino]: Well, you know, I mean, potentially, I believe the success of a subcommittee is to take that away from you. I mean, we eat through that two hours in a meeting very quickly when we have our meetings of the whole committee. I mean, we just don't the subcommittee gives us an opportunity to do some of the legwork. So it makes it easier for the other committee members to decide. But yeah, I, you know, I think, I think I'd like to focus on a very narrow scope in terms of building a basis for what then we can change and update.
[Milva McDonald]: Maury, what do you think?
[Maury Carroll]: Um, no, I like it. I don't think I agree with what Ron saying or else has said that, you know, we don't want to get into too wide of a spectrum here. We just want to concentrate on on the items that we feel like we've been charged to do in the subcommittee put together to get some great recommendations and some sort of a procedure to move forward and presented to the entire body.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah. Go ahead.
[Ron Giovino]: No, I think even within, you know, we haven't even determined that ward representation is the way to go. We've just tabled the other. And, you know, this is just gathering more data for folks to help make that decision stronger.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. And that's what my sense was that that committee wants that data in order to make that decision. 100%. So part of that data, I think, was the demographics.
[Ron Giovino]: 100%, yeah, yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: And I know that Jean has been working on that, and I assume she'll continue to. And I know that Henry Malorin just wrote to her, because I would see seed on it, and gave her some good guidance about who to contact at the census office to get that data. So we should have that soon.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, it's a key piece. It's an absolute key piece that we're going to have to decipher to figure it out. And I think Jean is the perfect person to be in charge of that because she's done a lot of the light work. So I think one of the goals today is to determine what tasks need to be done and who will take those tasks for our next meeting.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah. So that's good.
[Eunice Browne]: I think I'm just looking at the generic charter that the Collins folks sent to us, a while back, and this is the bare bones one, not one of the, you know, three communities, and under Article Two legislative branch it says section two dash one composition terms of office and eligibility. And it lists how the council is composed, how many Councilors, ward versus art lodge, two versus four year terms, qualifications for office, et cetera. And, you know, so that's probably, I guess, where we should be starting. And I think, you know, along with the length of term, I don't know, as I brought up in an email, if we would go along with, you know, term limits would be, you know, Companion topic to that or not.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, again, you know, I've done, I've done some research in this whole subject matter. I think term limits is one of those items that is really a subcommittee of research as well to try to figure out you know, go through all those interviews, go through the opinions, go through the stats, realizing, you know, what cities and towns actually do use term limits. What are the rules of term limits? I don't, term lengths, I read something through all the research says not many towns have more than two years city council as a term in terms of length. So I think that's.
[Milva McDonald]: Sorry, John. We have that Excel spreadsheet that has 59, you know, cities, comparable communities. So we will be able to see. And you're right. It is less common for city councilors to have four years.
[Ron Giovino]: Right.
[Milva McDonald]: And even in our interviews with the sitting city councilors, You know, I didn't hear them jumping and saying we, we have to have four year terms. They all agreed that the mayor should be four years but they didn't necessarily feel the council should. But, you know, so, but I think the term lengths because it's in that section is something to talk about.
[Ron Giovino]: So let me just tell you a little bit about, you know, I've obviously read the Massachusetts state laws, and it is extremely confusing, and it's very hidden, all these laws and rules. And when you don't have it in your charter, you're subject to those rules. And I defy anybody to be able to tell me what all those rules are. But I did reach out to the Secretary of State's office already and spoke to the Citizens Information Department of the Secretary of State. And they've been bouncing me around a little bit, but they seem very interested in answering some of my questions. And I'm asking them, where do we get guidance and more information on how to write such a document and how to understand what our limitations are and what we can and cannot say?
[Milva McDonald]: You mean the charter?
[Ron Giovino]: The charter, yes. You know, what that document would look like. And somebody got back, you know, they've been getting back to me, somebody got back to me this morning, they're looking into it to find out who or how somebody can help. So that's a resource that I'm going to look at. Obviously, when the call incentive comes back, I don't think we want to spend all our money on on this issue with them. But when we get to a more defined decision as what the document, what the article is going to look like, I think the Collins Center will probably have some good insight, they probably have good insight as to some of the questions. But I know it's a balance of how much of our budget we want to spend on them answering questions.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, well, definitely one of the things that they do is help communities with the drafting of the charter and so that I think, I think that that's our most. effective use of their time of our time with them right now is, is that. Right.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah. And there's so much research that we have to do before we get to that point, although we'd love, I'd love to have them at every one of these meetings so they can keep us guided, but they're coming back in October. So, yeah, no, I, I'm sure we're going to have a tons of tons of things for them. So in terms of the other thing I've done too, is Malden has the at-large hybrid model and So I have. I've taken upon myself to have a meeting with my good friend, the mayor of Malden and his chief of staff too. And they're very eager to share their thoughts of how it works, the details of it. So I think it's a great resource and we're just trying to schedule a lunch to sit down and for me to better understand what's good and what's bad about there, isn't there?
[Eunice Browne]: I think that's great, yeah.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, I'm very excited about it. He's a really good guy. I think Melrose has that plan to, they do, they do, I just, I, my friendship with the mayor will allow me to get some real truth in terms of. It's a valid resource so I just want to let you all know that I'll be doing that.
[Milva McDonald]: Also, make it make sense to Morgan it's right next to Medford it's. I guess one of the things that maybe I, I'm sure you're going to talk to them about a lot of things but one of the things that I know that we had specific committee members specifically concerned about was the question of, you know, we've had this issue of lack of diversity on the council and One of the things that was asked at the meeting is, will ward representation, I mean, I don't really see a way that we can guarantee that any system would, because we can't control who decides to run and who doesn't. But what we can do maybe is look at the opportunity. Can we open the door to more opportunity? And so when you're talking to the,
[Ron Giovino]: Maldon mayor and you know, you can ask maybe ask him about that piece because Because that is really yeah, that is a challenge because we have wards that don't have any representation and I know we've done that that's Yeah, that's extremely important and I think from what I see from you know on the other side of the street from all that is that it's a very diverse community and they seem to Do a really good job than us And that's my guess too. I mean, I, I think they are much better positioned than we are at this point, um, with diversity.
[Milva McDonald]: I would also be interested in how long they've had ward representation and if there was any sort of difference.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: I mean, in, in, in addressing the diversity piece, I, I mean, I just wonder how we know that, that there are some community, well, there's at least one community Lowell. That got word representation through a court case that because they, you know, they want a case saying that they had certain. groups in the city that were being denied representation. So I'm wondering if, as part of our research, because that is a specific concern of certain committee members or of some committee members and maybe all committee members, that if we maybe research a little about Lowell and because the question of, well, will ward representation create that and say, well, we can at least say what a court of law said in Lowell about that issue. Because they granted ward representation for that reason. So maybe, I mean, I don't know.
[Ron Giovino]: I think that's a great. I don't know how you do that, but I think it's interesting that it was done.
[Milva McDonald]: I'll see if I can get any information about that.
[Ron Giovino]: All right. I'm going to assign you to that task.
[Milva McDonald]: OK. Oh, sorry.
[Eunice Browne]: I may be totally off base here, but I thought that Lowell had specific pockets of the community, like, you know, streets or areas that were represented by one ethnicity or another, rather than being sort of spread more throughout the city. I don't know that we have, and maybe I'm wrong here and a bit naive, but do we have specific areas of the city, certain pockets of the city that are heavily one ethnicity or another, or is it more spread throughout?
[Milva McDonald]: Well, that's a good, that's what we're going to find out when we get the demographics.
[Maury Carroll]: I know when you're talking about low of what I know about low, there's still a plenty type of government. I'd be very interested to see the court ruling because the city councils, I believe there's either nine or 11 on their city council and they're all at large. So, I mean, this law changed that. It was a court case. Yeah, I'd like to see that.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, I just don't. I heard stirrings from more than one person that maybe Medford could get word representation that way. And I think some other communities thought well maybe a court case is the way to go. But we'll find out what the demographics when we can see the demographics.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, I think that that's it very very interesting and and when you start breaking words into ethnicity I think you run, you know, you might as well just do at large, I mean just do you know all at large because you lose that neighborhood feel, but I don't know. It's, this is, these are the questions we have to. Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: Right. Are there wards? I mean, we know historically that Ward 6 would have been an African, you know, would have been heavily African American, but that's changed over the last few decades.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yes.
[Milva McDonald]: You know, so, so we'll see what the demographics say now, if there's a particular ward that has, you know, a majority population of any particular Um, ethnicity or, or group that has been underrepresented it underrepresented. And if that would make a difference. I mean, I had another, I don't know if this makes sense, but I was thinking, um, you know, we're looking at, um, You know, Eunice has done this amazing research where we see, okay, these wards have had, you know, some representatives, these two boards, one and four have had none, you know, um, would it. make so what we're going to get the demographics but would it make sense to look at how those wards voted like for instance if ward four we know and ward one have had zero there's been not a single Councilor from those wards if we looked at how they voted and saw that not only has there been no Councilor from those wards that the people that they were voting for also didn't get elected would that would that show that you know would that give us really any basis for thinking that they're even less represented than, you know, it also it. We don't know how they would vote. If there were it how they would have voted if there were candidates that were actually from their wards so it so in some ways it's not maybe it's not valid information I just thought, well, is that information that would be interesting. I don't know.
[Ron Giovino]: I don't think there's anything such thing as bad information all this data would allow us to determine I mean I think, I think.
[Milva McDonald]: Maybe if you know Eunice has done all this, this ahead of you hang on one second, because I do know that like candidates for instance in Medford for council that are at large will look at how different wards voted for them. and that might inform how they campaign in the future. You know, like, okay, I know that I do really well in this ward, so I gotta make sure, you know, et cetera. So I think even though we don't have ward representation, it does, it still informs how the city council candidates, you know, conduct their campaigns and sort of look at their strategies for reelection.
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, and it also dictates where they spend their time. They go to certain sections. Right, exactly. Or voter turnout. They don't spend as much time campaigning or knocking on doors in those certain sections.
[Milva McDonald]: Exactly. Right. So I guess it does make a difference how each ward votes for each candidate. So maybe we should collect that information. I don't know. What do you guys think?
[Ron Giovino]: 100%. I think it's very, I think it's valuable stuff. And it's not, I mean, Eunice has done 70% of that already.
[Eunice Browne]: Oh, I think I've done a, I might have done my computer is weird, but I'm trying to see if I can upload something else that I've done that might help us.
[Milva McDonald]: You guys keep talking. Are you burned out on this or do you want to, do you want to go one level deeper and get this data as well?
[Eunice Browne]: Oh, I can go one level deeper. I'm a data nerd. Somebody keeps asking. A resident asked me that I ran into a couple of weeks ago. Why every time I'm on Zoom, I keep looking to my left. Like, do I have a magic crystal ball? No, my desktop is to my left, which is where all my data is. That's your magic crystal ball. Something like that. I'm going to see if I can Because I don't have a microphone and a camera on my desktop, so I use my laptop for that. But I'm going to see if I can email myself something, pick it up on my laptop, and then share it with you guys. So keep talking, and I'll let you know when I've got what I need.
[Ron Giovino]: So also, before we leave this meeting, I want to define exactly what we want to do. Like, like, Jean has, Jean's going to have her hands full with the demographics and the census and all that stuff. So I think she's got her mission of what she needs, you know, what she needs to collect and report back on. And I'm just assuming our next meeting will be a series of updated presentations that, you know, see where she's at, you know, what we want to do with that data. But I think, you know, she's got a, she's got a strong task. I think, Milva, your, investigation into the legal impact of what happened in Lowell is a very important piece just for our education. And I think all the stuff that we will or won't use, it just makes us smarter when we're having discussions with people about what they want. And I'm sure people will ask this question. So I think it's extremely valuable to find examples like this. The other thing I wanted to We always talk about Boston as an exception, and it can only happen in Boston, how they set up their government. And I think eventually we should really understand better the reasons why there are districts, and there are wards, and why there are grouped wards, and things like that, too. I think that's a part of it.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, that refers to Boston a lot.
[Milva McDonald]: I think because they have the things in the charter that he would like. But I thought the center told us that district and award were interchangeable.
[Ron Giovino]: I, yeah, I mean, I think, I think, in terms of, you know, we have the right, we have the right as a city to enact charter to change the wards. There's only the only restriction is each, each ward has to be equal in population. And I think the minimum is 12,000 citizens, is it? No, it's not 12,000. It's there's some restrictions as to how it was.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah.
[Ron Giovino]: 4,000. But again, I think it's very much, you know, way beyond the scope of what we want to do.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, I mean, okay, so I thought the state set them every 10 years. But if we like that option that was proposed, or that was thrown out as the more innovative option, right, of having combining two wards, And then having them be sort of like having two to three Councilors from this say wards one and two and then words three and four. And if, and that would get into a lot of complexity I mean I asked the call and center about that and they're not aware of anybody who does that but they maybe would check. One thing that it would present is a lot of complexity for us because of those laws. Because even if we group two wards together, all this contiguous and the number of populations, so we would have to determine whether we could even do it legally based on that. I guess I feel like unless we know that there's a strong interest in that on the part of the community and or the committee that that kind of figuring out isn't necessary, but I don't know. Do people feel like part of our work as a subcommittee is to look into that option.
[Ron Giovino]: I don't.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. PB, David Ensign — He-Him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him, he-him,
[Ron Giovino]: So when we tell gene that we want her to, what do we, what do we want gene to be presenting in two weeks.
[Milva McDonald]: She was she's going to look at the population demographics so like see ward, ward for, you know, x number of, you know, cocky you know white people, whatever, whatever the ethnic demographics I don't know. how else the census breaks down data. I don't know if, I don't know that, you know, I don't know what other categories, whatever categories the census has.
[Ron Giovino]: Okay.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah.
[Ron Giovino]: Okay. So that's a task. That's a, that's a good task. I also think, you know, I think, you know, Eunice certainly has already identified with this, you know, all the information and the documentation. If she has more information that she's looking for now.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, actually I found it. Can I share my screen? Yeah, hang on, let me go to security.
[Unidentified]: You should be able to now. Okay. All right, let's see. Share. Let's see if I can do this. You are screen sharing.
[Eunice Browne]: Okay, so then how the hell do I tell me if this is what you're looking for. Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: This is, I think exactly because it, it's sort of like, just let's take the example of Nicole, but she's first. So one, one, these first three are all war. No, the first two are ward one. They're just different precincts. Is that right?
[Eunice Browne]: Just to kind of walk through it. It's obviously last first, the total number of votes. And then we have eight wards and Each one has a precinct, two precincts. So Ward 1, 1-1, Ward 1, Ward 1, Precinct 2, and so on down the line. So then you get every ward and precinct, the total number of votes that each candidate got. going down to the bottom, 41,000. There were 41,219 registered voters last election. 13,000 of them cast votes, almost 33%. And then you have each ward. So Ward 1-1 is the Andrews Middle School. There are 2,539 registered voters, 780 of them cast votes. So 30% of that precinct came out and so on. You'll go over to like where the temple is and almost 53% of their registered voters came out to vote. Wow.
[Milva McDonald]: And that is actually, That is Ward 4.
[Eunice Browne]: No, the temple is 3-2. Oh, Ward 3. Oh, that's Ward 3. OK. But now you mosey over to 4-1, which is Tufts at the Gantra Center. With 1,800 registered voters, only 325 came out. Wow.
[Milva McDonald]: This is extremely interesting.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: Because that is one of the wards that doesn't have anybody. Right. Hasn't had anybody.
[Ron Giovino]: Well, they wouldn't be able to with 300 voters.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't know. Yeah, but if we Well, they would say could if there was a if they had word representation, they would have somebody because they both people would be voting on that person. But now, but I guess what's interesting to me is if we see that the turnout is much higher in the words that tend to have Councilors from their wards, then that's, I think that's interesting. That shows that they're more motivated to vote.
[Eunice Browne]: The other thing to consider about 401, which is Tufts, is there are 1,800 registered voters, this was last election, 2021, and 300 ballots cast. You wonder how many of those 1,800 voters might be tough students who may only come out for a presidential because, I mean, they're college students, they're, by their very nature, somewhat transient. a presidential election has an enormous effect on them, but whether the potholes in Medford get fixed. less so.
[Milva McDonald]: A lot of the students might not even be registered because a lot of college students stay registered in their home states.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah. I think that, you know, I think, and if Eunice, you want to take this task on and maybe Maury would want to, because Maury knows the city personnel better than most. But this is kind of a, to me, what I see from this data is a definite sit down with the city clerk and his election committee. and see what they think about this stuff, because this is value, this is extremely valuable for us to understand the impact of where this is happening. And then trying to maybe, you know, like I said, I'm sure, you know, Maury knows, you know, the West Medford Community Center folks and other organizations in the city that represent diversity to try to understand from their perspective, why they don't participate in this process. Is it Is it lack of knowledge? Is it inconvenience? Is it you feel like nobody's listening anyway? You know, that's a real big target audience, maybe like even a focus group type, you know, to get down and dirty and understand that. But this is an extreme, you know, for both the high end and the low end, trying to understand why that happens is extremely important because the ward representation may or may not impact this whole thing.
[Maury Carroll]: know what's happened here is this is what everyone that run for office over the last 1520 years. It's known this, these kind of numbers that these are the places you had to win to be successful. And where are they all? It's the temple, it's book school, it's West Medford fire station, those are those are your three big, big wards and precincts that you have to do real well in to survive. There's a bigger vote. That's the largest voter turnout, percentage-wise, throughout the city. And then over here, Robert School, where years ago, when we were growing up and so forth, you had to win St. James, and you had to win the Lincoln School in South Bedford to even have a chance. Now, it's completely turned around. Yeah, I think, you know, once again, Eunice, this is invaluable. And there's a lot to go off of here as a guideline.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. And what it also shows me is that, I mean, it makes sense that candidates would be using those calculuses because they have to figure out how to win. But what it shows is that even though we don't have, even though they're at large, they're still focusing on particular areas of the city. And that means other areas are not going to be focused on. I mean, that's what it shows to me.
[Ron Giovino]: Well, that's why Republicans don't come to Massachusetts, because it's not worth their energy. And we have this microcosm sample right here in Medford, and we should understand that better. Right. So in terms of what we're going to do with this data. I mean, obviously, Eunice, you're already in, you're involved in this, you own this data. So I would ask that you take this data and do what we're saying in terms of trying to really present a report that says, you know, this is what's happening here, this is what's happening there. And then maybe, you know, Maury seems to understand the long history of where to get your votes and who those folks are. Maybe Maury, you can work on some kind of a presentation to help us understand within, you know, you can't make assumptions, but try to understand why this is happening in terms of, you know, talking to past and present politicians, not in an interview setting, but in a, you know, just a conversive setting.
[Maury Carroll]: Backfinding mission, pick their brain a little bit, why, you know, why they go here, why they think they do well or not do well.
[Ron Giovino]: And the same, you know, the same, the senior center, the disabled people, the West Bedford Community Center, the Haitian community, the, you know, the Asian, you know, Every, you know, because you deal with them, you're in the public, you're out there, you know, you are, you know, the face out there. And, you know, they know you, they, you know, and you already have at these conversations, but maybe that's a good, I'm just throwing this out, maybe that's a good task for you to assemble some kind of organized presentation for our next meeting that says this is how This is how the history looks. And this is why, you know, in your belief is. And so I think that's a great starting point. Do you agree with what I'm... Does that make sense what I'm saying?
[Maury Carroll]: Yeah, I'm in. I'll do the best I can. When's there going to be our next meeting? I don't know what kind of time frame I have. Yeah, we're going to decide that.
[Milva McDonald]: One thing, can I just add something to that? I know, Eunice, that I don't remember if you got a response, but I think for the presenting of the information, people just really like graphics and visuals.
[Eunice Browne]: Aubrey made me something the last time, but it wasn't, I wanted to talk with her before she did anything, and she just kind of went ahead and did something based on what I said, and it wasn't quite what I had in mind. And I'm not sure what her status on the committee is, since it seemed to be the last time.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. Hopefully it's all going to be fine. It has to do with whether there's a question of her job and how it will come.
[Ron Giovino]: She's asking, is she holding off for more money? Is that what it is?
[Milva McDonald]: No, it's just, um, she works. We all do. She works for Dease. So, um, there's questions, you know, there's just the conflict reality or conflict of interest or something.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I guess.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Okay.
[Eunice Browne]: Well, I mean, anybody can do a chart or graph. I mean, Jean can help with that too, and it won't take her long. Or like you said, somebody in the office.
[Milva McDonald]: That's not like Emma, Emma Toombley in the communications office. Twombly, I don't know how you say her last name, but she, she made some graphics for the survey. She's, and she's, she's very responsive and quick. And I think she could probably, if you just told her what you wanted, I think she could do it pretty quickly.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah. So insofar as the data, I mean, I did this for 2021. I also have school committee data the same way as well when we jump over to them later. I mean, the other data that I put together went back to 2005. And it took a while, but it wasn't as granular as this was. I mean, if you want me to go back to 2005, I can do that.
[Ron Giovino]: I think I think you what you've just shown us here so eye opening that the whole committee needs a needs to see this because it's very it's very, very interesting.
[Eunice Browne]: And I think I can go back another election or two.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a good, I think that's a good presentation for you to at least be, I mean, you have a lot of this stuff, but taking, taking the numbers. And like Milva says, seeing the numbers is very dramatic, but also I'd be interested in hearing what your analysis of the numbers are and what you see as a starting point to a discussion as to, you know, what it really, what we really want to present to the community of the whole, in terms of, you know, this is what we think is, this is why we think it's the right thing. So this is amazing information.
[Eunice Browne]: How about I do this? I've got 2021. I'll do 2023 after the election in November. I think, in my opinion, I think a lot of things seems to have changed. Since Mayor McGlynn left office, we've had a little bit more turnover and churn and different people coming in to run for office. And that seemed to be sort of a turning point. That's my thought at least. Others may have other opinions. Why don't I backtrack and I'll do 2019, I'll try and do 2017, and I'll see if I can get as far back as 2015. That might take beyond our next meeting. Um, again, depending upon, you know, what kind of timeframe we have. Um, you know, cause this takes a little while. Um, but. You know, kind of commit to over time going back as far as 2015. And I'll just backtrack and see how far I get before our next meeting. And, you know, start looking at some of the trends and the other thing that you'll note there. Um, if you kind of go down, I made a little legend down the bottom.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Yeah, I was looking at that.
[Eunice Browne]: Red is their home precinct. Blue is their childhood precinct, if I could find it. So some people grew up here. And then green is anybody with a precinct with family ties. So for example, David Tedisco, his home precinct at that time was 439. It was 21439. I grew up around the corner from the Tedisco family. His dad, I think, grew up around the corner from me. So I'm in 4-2, and his grandparents still live in that house. So, you know, he has family ties in, you know, 4-2. I'm sure that, you know, his grandparents had a hand in, you know, getting him some of those votes. So that would be a case of that. You have George Scarpelli whose home precinct currently is for 70, but he, you know, grew up in one to, you know, and, and so forth. So, you know, I think all of that, you know, speaks to something as well. Some people who didn't grow up here just have their current home precinct. So,
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, I think, I think that this is this is the presentation that everybody needs to see and I think you've got a really good start and handle of what it is so I wouldn't you know I wouldn't necessarily go back, I wouldn't strain too much going back beyond. 2016 or 15. I don't know if that data is relevant to what we're looking at currently, but if it's, if it's easy to get the more data, the better, but I wouldn't, you know, to me, I, I would like this, these numbers to be interpreted by you, just like you just did and, and have that presentation, uh, ready for our next meeting, whenever that is.
[Milva McDonald]: And what I think would be awesome is whatever sort of the, like I said, if you make a pie chart then, or something to, Based on what the points are that we want to make. Um, and in relationship to, cause what we're looking at is, is basically council composition and, um, and so, you know, with, with the wards. I mean, I guess, you know, my feeling is, um, you know, this shows that even though the Councilors represent the entire city. they're inevitably going to be focusing on certain areas, at least in campaigning. Now, maybe when they serve, but what does human nature tell us?
[Adam Hurtubise]: Take care of those.
[Eunice Browne]: OK, well, I'll go back at least the next couple of cycles. The information is easy enough to get. It's just putting it into this format.
[Ron Giovino]: I mean, I think that's a really, you know, in terms of defining, you know, I think Jean's got her task well in hand of what she needs to do. I think now, Eunice, you have a really good understanding of what, and you know, our next meeting is just, you know, to see where we're at. It's just gonna be, you know, if we need more time, we'll need more time. or we need to edit or whatever, but it gives us at least a window into things like Mel was talking about. We could build up pie charts or bar charts that show this is what's happening. So it's a visual for everybody to see and quickly understand that, wow, this is, you know. And I think one of our goals too is from what we hear from everybody is diversity is really really important and feeling that everybody in the city feels like somebody is listening to them so this is this is really one of the basic tenants for everything we're doing with this charter so this is good.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, and when we get the demographic information, we can sort of see how that information interacts with this.
[Ron Giovino]: 100%, right. And I think that, you know, I think from a standpoint of political culture and history, Maury's the guy that already has a great understanding of that. And I would, I would think that if you have, you know, connections with the clerk and, You know, that's going to be worthwhile to you know I believe that you know the better and deeper our connections are the more information true information we gather so if you would take that task off on more each at least at our next meeting to talk about, you know, take some time to just talk about, you know, what it is that you understand the task to be. And then we'll just talk about, you know, how we can refine it or if it's perfect or whatever. So I'm a task guy so that, you know, we assign the task and we go offline and get the task and bring it back completed. So we're more efficient with our time. So three of you already have a nice task. I think, Milva, you are don't take this the wrong way, you are overwhelmed with everything you accept to do for this committee. So I think I look at your task list. And I say, Wow, I mean, God bless you. It's very, it's very much appreciated. And I'm just saying, you know, your your role, wherever committee you're in, whatever subcommittee you are, the chair, you are the overseer.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, but you're the overseer of this.
[Ron Giovino]: Well, yes, but you are still, you know, it's like the mayor on the school committee, you're still the person. So, you know, you are, you know, I know in your head right now, you're thinking of the other 10 things you have to do when you get off this call. But I do think I do think the low case study is extremely important to understand that option. So that's gonna that's a task, you know, to understand that, and to learn what role that Lowell had in doing that, and what role the state had in doing that, and what role the court system had in doing that.
[Milva McDonald]: Well, yeah, and what I'm also interested in, and what were the arguments that were presented to the court that they agreed with and said, yeah, this is not fair representation here.
[Ron Giovino]: And what was the judgment? How did they implement that judgment to ensure that that would fix the problem? So I think that that's a really strong case study. So if you would accept that as your task, I think that's good. I'm going to take on my continued discussions on the Mass General Laws with the Secretary of State's office. And I have the communications with Malden to see where that heads.
[Milva McDonald]: I think we all have a good we definitely do, but I was just want we have we talked a lot about like addressing the diversity concerns. In terms of the other topics that were sort of in the motion, and I don't have in front of me and I should. But does anybody remember what else we were, we were specifically asked to research, and you share your screen.
[Ron Giovino]: I guess I don't care. That's okay, you don't have to do it. I'm just gonna I just want to go.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I can do stuff. Yeah, that's okay.
[Ron Giovino]: I don't need. I'm just gonna, I gotta look at the agenda. Yeah, no, I want to see the
[Maury Carroll]: One, get a little tick list and send it off to me that way I can try to do it. And Eunice, I need you to send me a copy of what you just had on the screen there and I can print that out and have something in my hand to be able to talk to different groups about. Well, what I'm going to try to do is Eddie Finn's in Maine right now. I usually see Eddie. He's a good source, yeah. Yeah, I think I'll try to pick his brain. He worked hard in the elections over how many years, Ron? Yeah, I mean.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's part of history, that's for sure, yeah.
[Maury Carroll]: He can give you a bit, he could actually probably give us better rotation of how the votes have gone over the years and how the different demographics have changed throughout the city on election.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, that's very valuable. Again, the more information, the stronger we are. I'm reading the motion. It says the motion to establish subcommittee to research aspects of hybrid ward representation versus increasing size of current at-large council. Subcommittee's topics will include, but not limited to, authority of ward Councilors, size of council, demographics of wards, innovative approaches to ward representation, interaction of ward representation with term blanks, process if no one from the ward runs, I think we've covered a lot of them.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah.
[Ron Giovino]: I mean, the, the, the process for the wards, if nobody runs, or if somebody is taken out of the ward is covered in the general law. So I will cover that.
[Ron Giovino]: I think the one we may be missing is. taking a look at authority of the ward Councilors. And that is like a bonus to me. I mean, I think that we assume that a ward council would have the same rights and powers as a at-large Councilor. But I know that we've talked in the past about some of the ward representation includes some more power to have more control over legislation that impacts the awards. Is that what that is about?
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah. And I'm actually, you know, I guess maybe what I think I should start with is I'll just ask the Collins Center about this, because it was raised by in one of the interviews by a sitting Councilor, and I had never heard of it before. And my assumption was that everybody's vote on the council would be would be an equal vote. Yeah, even if we had Ward representation, And I don't even know if it's done in very many other communities where they actually give the ward Councilor, you know, some kind of veto power.
[Ron Giovino]: To anything that happens in their ward, which I think is, I'm not crazy about that idea. They would have to really explain that to me.
[Milva McDonald]: I don't even know if it's that common. So why don't I just, it's a question I'll put to the call-in center. What is your sense of this? Are there communities that even do this? In fact, I'm wondering if it even, it seems like it's questionable legally to me, but, you know, because if you have a council and then, and it seems like it would just create huge amounts of confusion. What if there's something that overlaps, you know, one word and another, and then how many, you know, I mean,
[Ron Giovino]: Well, then you would never get, you know, a halfway house would never be built in the city because which would would say yes bring it in if they had veto power.
[Milva McDonald]: I think there have been concerns that like maybe, I mean all the votes being equal that Councilors might think that they had to defer to a ward Councilor if there was something in their ward just because that's politics kind of thing, you know what I mean. So, and I don't know how much that happens but I mean, maybe that's something, you know, I don't even know how we would delve into kind of figuring that kind of stuff out.
[Ron Giovino]: Well, I'll bring it up in my meeting with Malden and see how that works. I know that each ward Councilor has a budget. Each ward Councilor can run certain events and meetings just for their ward. So I do think there's powers, but I'll ask them and see. That's probably a good starting point.
[Milva McDonald]: That's really good. So you do a US Malden and I'll ask Colin center.
[Eunice Browne]: Okay, what about talking to some of the, and I think this is on our to do list. Anyway, of talking to some of those older Councilors, you know, especially the ones that were involved in the charter stuff years ago, you know, Yeah, Bobby Penta Patricia, you know, maybe Bob my ACO, things like that. Yeah, well, some thoughts out of them.
[Milva McDonald]: I know and I still am, I, you know, because everything's falling apart this week I haven't, I have to seek out their contact info but the other thing that I was thinking about.
[Ron Giovino]: I mean, I talked to these people, I was just gonna say this guy here is he should be that should be part of his task.
[Milva McDonald]: I know Bob Penta was on the 1978 elected Charter Commission and their charter didn't make it through the voters, but it did include district representation. So if we talk to some people who were on that commission, and maybe we could talk to them about what you know what was your rationale, why did the commission at that point, decide on that. Why did you think that that would have been good for the city.
[Maury Carroll]: to Bobby, I won't get to it this weekend, but I'll talk to Bobby next week. And I kind of, because I was active in that with him, not as much, but it was basically him and Miriam O'Ganthi and a few other ones that, that really carried the ball on that.
[Milva McDonald]: So let me talk to him and kind of... Well, Maury, if you could set, if you want to set up an interview, that would be awesome. I'll do it with you.
[Maury Carroll]: Okay. I can do that too.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, yeah. No, I think we should do an interview so that we have notes.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, Marianne Frizzoli. She was the other one that was in that.
[Ron Giovino]: All right, so Maura, without making it too overwhelming, you're the historical piece of this process because you know everybody. And if we don't have it ready by the next meeting, then so be it. We'll just understand where we are and if you need more help or whatever. But I think that's a good start. I mean, I think you have a lot of it already because you've lived it.
[Maury Carroll]: It's very easy to get a hold of them. I'm with them so often.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, right. Yeah, so that's perfect for you. I think that's a good test.
[Maury Carroll]: When I'm talking here, what I would do is I'd ask Paul Donato to help me and go knock on the doors with me. Like down in South Method, who do I talk to down there? Right. The church, not the Church of Bangladesh, which one's down there on Biota Street and all that?
[Milva McDonald]: The Tibetan?
[Maury Carroll]: Yes, Paul's close with them.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, he's a great resource. I mean, he's, he's, he's a great resource. And he probably knows the answers to a lot of the questions you'll have just because of his history.
[Maury Carroll]: Just to have like a 15, 20 minute conversation with these people, just to tell them what we're doing and how, how do they get their communities more involved in the political side and the politics in the city of Medford that they resided.
[Ron Giovino]: Have we done Donato's interview yet?
[Eunice Browne]: Gene and I are working on setting it up. As a matter of fact, we got an email from his assistant, Susan, confirming a date.
[Maury Carroll]: Susan's been dealing with health issues. I'm with Paul all the time.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I think the communication we got a day or 2 ago, and I'm waiting for Jean to respond. I know she's on vacation. I think we're zeroing in on Wednesday, the 30th at, I think, 10am or something like that. 2 o'clock. I can't remember, but it's the 30th, I think. So I think that was the availability I gave, Jean gave. And Paul seems to be on board with it so, but if you know, Maury if you want to, you know, talk with him, you know, on a different, you know, you know, different direction as well from the formal interview, then definitely I mean Paul's a great resource for a whole
[Maury Carroll]: I'll definitely sit with Paul, in fact, if you want me to, but on the kind of interviews that we're discussing, I think it should be at least two people involved, not just one.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah, and I like the idea of doing that because then we can sort of create the notes and they go into the record and the committee gets to see them.
[Ron Giovino]: I think the interviews have gone really great. They really have. The insight is incredible. The cooperation is incredible. And the discussion is a very, very smooth. It's not an answer this question. Let's move to the next question. It's a true discussion. So it's really working well. I wanted this to be more of an organizational meeting. And I think I'm very excited about what we've got going here. And, you know, I have a I have a grandchild being born today I hope so.
[Milva McDonald]: Yeah.
[Ron Giovino]: And I have to go because I've been yeah so I wanted to keep it to that but before I go I just want to, and I'll send out an email jeans going to be continuing her deep dive into demographics and population. I'm working on the general laws piece with the Secretary of State's office and the Malden piece, understanding that. Milva's digging into the Lowell court decision. Eunice is continuing her great work with the data collection and trying to formulate an analysis for presentation. And Maury's now the team historian, so.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay. And when I, I'll get the minutes out to you guys as soon as possible, and it will include an action list.
[Ron Giovino]: Just next meeting. Is this a good time for everybody? Or, I mean, it's a reasonable time if we kept it. Yes.
[Eunice Browne]: Can I just, one thought, and you know, and I'm, I know that we don't have a whole lot of public participation, but we're delving into, you know, some pretty important topics here. I'm wondering if we should revert to evenings where people could participate if they wish. I mean, yeah, I mean, it's an interesting point.
[Ron Giovino]: I just think that our door. Yeah, I do think that we're, this is all gonna be public in Committee of the Whole meetings and whatever. So I do, I hear what you're saying. I'm just, my thought is that the evenings are, we give up evenings for Committee of the Whole meetings. And if everybody's comfortable with the Thursday morning meeting, it allows us, to me, this is the grunt work piece, not the PR piece, but I hear what you're saying. And I think we also give those who are really involved and want to understand this, they can tune in on a Thursday or they can watch the recording because it's all going to be out there online. They can watch that. I just, if the five of us agree, and I haven't heard back from Jean, but the five of us agree that Thursday at this time is a really good time, then to me, There's always going to be something going on.
[Milva McDonald]: Let's keep the next one at least. I have August 24th at 10.
[Ron Giovino]: August 24th.
[Milva McDonald]: We are going to present this to the whole committee, you know, in an evening meeting too.
[Ron Giovino]: Yeah, I agree. I hear what you're saying, Eunice. Our whole committee of the whole meeting should be reasonably timed.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, so I'm really sorry, but I have to go. You guys want to keep going?
[Ron Giovino]: So I think we got a good, we can still communicate if you need any assistance.
[Eunice Browne]: I don't think the 24th is a good date for me, but I'm not sure. Let's try for something else.
[Ron Giovino]: Let's see. If you can't do the 24th, we'll start a round of emails back and forth to pick a good date.
[Eunice Browne]: Yeah, I need to figure out if I'm going to, I can, I can do it from the Cape, which is probably where I'm going to be. I just, you know, rather not.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay, we'll say tentatively and then we can try, you know, we can do a doodle poll.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Move it out. Yeah.
[Milva McDonald]: Okay.
[Adam Hurtubise]: Okay. All right.
[Milva McDonald]: Fantastic. Thank you all.
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